Objections from a Catholic

TOPICS: Why the Catholic mental box imprisons people so firmly - prophecy often goes beyond doctrine - Catholic church has rewritten history - Jesus did not found the Catholic church - did all souls go to hell before Jesus? - no earthly institution has complete truth - if the church had complete truth, it should be able to answer all of people’s questions - doctrines influenced by human power struggles - setting yourself up as a god on earth - the Bible is not the infallible word of God - no doctrine is a complete description of Jesus’ teachings - it is possible for people to receive genuine revelation outside any church - new revelation often goes beyond established doctrines -

Question from Kim: Jesus, a devout Catholic had the following response to the message from Mother Mary, LINK given on Thanksgiving:


I have many doubts as to the source of this so-called heavenly message. In my opinion the source is NOT truly the Catholic Our Lady, Holy Mary.
Many sentences sound catholic, but as many others have a gnostic sense. Theologically speaking the content is not straightforward in dogmatical matters, which all true prophecies are. I advise you to retract this message from your list. Do NOT distribute, to prevent further confusion.

I would like to know what you would say to such a response.

 

 

Answer from ascended master Jesus through Kim Michaels:

 

I would say nothing. 

 

Kim: I don't understand. Why would you say nothing?


Jesus: The person is not open to the message, so nothing I could possibly say would make a difference. The person obviously rejects the message from my beloved mother, so why would anything I could say cause the person to change his mind?

You see, the central problem here is that the person is not even looking at the message. He is the perfect example of what I talk about in my discourse about the mission impossible, namely a person who has encased his mind in a mental box. In this case, the mental box is created by Catholic doctrines, and the doctrines form a filter through which the person sees everything. If something sounds like it conforms to Catholic doctrine, or rather to his particular perception of Catholic doctrine, then he might take a look at it. Yet if a message does not conform to Catholic doctrine, if it sounds non-dogmatic, then he will reject it outright.

Obviously, this person is not listening to the message with his heart, with his intuition. He is not open to getting a direction from his Christ self. He is only looking at the message with his outer mind, and therefore he will judge any message based on his particular mental box.

The claim that all true prophecies are straightforward in dogmatic matters shows clearly that the person is not able to look beyond his mental box. It also shows that he has little understanding of the true nature of prophecy, and he has little historical knowledge of Old Testament prophecies.

If you look at the tradition of the Old Testament prophets, you will see that these prophets typically where not leaders in the organized Jewish religion. They were outsiders, and they were often rejected by orthodox religious people. One of the reasons for this rejection was that their prophecies did not often conform to the official doctrine of the day.

One might raise a logical question here. The nature of a prophet is that he seeks to awaken people to the fact that they are out of alignment with the truth of God. In many cases the prophet attempted to make people see that their official religious doctrines and practices were out of alignment with the truth of God. So if the prophecy is given precisely to awaken people to the fact that their doctrines have moved away from truth, how could that prophecy possibly conform to official doctrine? And if the official doctrines were in perfect alignment with truth, why would there be a need to give the prophecy?

So you see that the very nature of prophecy is that it goes beyond many of the mental boxes that cause people to feel comfortable and believe that all is well. Many people have become so blinded by their mental boxes that they cannot see that they are walking toward an abyss. The very nature of prophecy is to awaken people to the fact that if they do not change course, they will fall over the cliff and be lost. So if you expect that the prophecy will conform to official doctrine, or in other ways conform to your comfortable beliefs about life, then you have not understood the nature and purpose of prophecy.

You will, by looking at the Old Testament, see that in many cases the warnings of the prophets fell on deaf ears. People simply were not willing to look beyond their mental boxes, and therefore they rejected the prophet and his message. Why do you think I so often said, “He who has years, let him hear my words?”

 

Kim: The person also made several other remarks, and I would like to know your response. This is the first remark:

There only has been one true founder of a religion, and that is Jesus, and he founded the Catholic Religion and the Catholic Church.

 

Jesus: Again, this is a person whose mind is imprisoned by a mental box created by the Catholic Church over the past 1,500 years. In this case, the person reveals a very sketchy knowledge about historical facts. This is not surprising, given the fact that the winners always write and rewrite history to their advantage. The Catholic Church has had a long time to rewrite the history of early Christianity to make it support and conform to Catholic doctrines.

Anyone with a reasonable knowledge about the historical facts will see that I did not found the Catholic Church. I started a movement that was not called the Catholic Church and that had very little resemblance to what became the Catholic Church. In fact, for decades after my crucifixion, my disciples were known as “the followers of the way.” They did not become known as Christians until later, and the reason was that in the beginning my followers were not nearly as focused on my person as later Christians. They were focused on bringing out the Christ in everyone, and that is why Paul said, "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus."

When you say the Catholic Church, you should truly be saying the Roman Catholic Church. The simple fact is that for over 1,700 years the Christian world has been dominated by the Roman Catholic Church. This church was not founded until the conversion of the emperor Constantine, which happened in 312 A.D. So there is absolutely no way anyone can look at the historical facts and claim that I founded the Catholic Church.

As for the claim that I am the one true founder of a religion, one might ask what happened to Moses and Abraham? Did I not honor and respect Moses and Abraham? So how can anyone claim that Jesus Christ is the only true founder of a religion? Are such people saying that God did not have a plan for the salvation of lifestreams until 2,000 years ago? Are they saying that all the people who died before I appeared automatically went to Hell because God simply could not save them until I arrived on the scene and started the one true religion, namely the Catholic Church which was started 300 years after my crucifixion?


Kim: Here is the persons next statement:

Truth may only be found in the Catholic Church, total, complete truth, that is. Other religions may have some elements of truth.


Jesus: I have to say that when I hear such statements made by Christians in my name, I literally cry out to God, “How long, oh Lord? How long before these people finally wake up and overcome their need to define an outer religion as the one true religion, thereby overlooking the true inner path to salvation?” How long before these people will understand the message from Psalms that I often quoted, “There is a way that seems right unto a man, but the ends thereof are ways of death?”

How long before they recognize that I was in constant conflict with the orthodox religious authorities and that is why I said, “Woe unto you lawyers, for ye have taken away the key of knowledge.” And how long before they realize that I was addressing people who claim that orthodox doctrines are more important than the Living Word that was so beautifully delivered by Mother Mary in her dictation?

As I explain in more detail elsewhere, there is indeed more than one true religion. I agree with the statement that other religions have elements of truth. Almost all religions have elements of truth, and the Catholic Church is no exception. The Catholic Church does indeed have elements of truth, but to say that the Catholic Church has total and complete truth is simply incorrect. If the Catholic Church had total and complete truth, how come so many Catholics have unanswered questions, and how come the standard answer they get when they ask their priests some of the more difficult questions is, “It's a mystery?”

Once again, a brief look at history will reveal the fallacy of this line of thinking. About 500 years ago, the Catholic Church had an official doctrine which stated that the earth was the center of the universe. The Church claimed that this was an infallible doctrine, and the church went so far as to torture and execute early scientists who dared to contradict this official doctrine. I dare say that few Catholics today believe the earth is flat or that the entire universe revolves around this planet. So every Catholic has admitted that at one time the Catholic Church had doctrines that were not total and complete. They were indeed incomplete and fallible doctrines.


Kim: The person’s next statement:

That is not to say that all Catholic churchmen are perfect people, of course they are not. But we have always to distinguish between the teachings and the persons, between the dogmas and the teacher. The Catholic dogmas give the only true truth. Whereas people may err.


Jesus: So if a person recognizes that Catholic churchmen are not perfect people and that they indeed may err, where does the person imagine Catholic doctrines came from? Did they suddenly fall from the sky in their present form?

Once again, a little historical knowledge will reveal that Catholic doctrines are the result of a long and violent process that is indeed as affected by human politicking and human power struggles as anything else on this planet. Simply study some of the historical records about the Arian Controversy, which eventually created the doctrine that I am God and that I was never created by God. You will clearly see that Catholic doctrines were indeed created by Catholic churchmen, and those churchmen were in fact not much better than so many other power-hungry people that you have seen throughout history.

How can one possibly distinguish between the teachings and the person, unless those teachings are brought forth through the Living Word as progressive revelation? The historical facts clearly show that Catholic doctrines were not brought forth through divine revelation, but in many cases were the result of a highly political power struggle between opposing factions. Once again, the winners will rewrite history to support their beliefs. Yet no amount human politicking will turn man-made doctrines into the truth, let alone the only truth.

In the book Save Yourself LINK I give profound teachings explaining that a spiritual vision or teaching is always given through the consciousness of a person in embodiment. As quantum physics has demonstrated, the consciousness of the observer will always influence the observation, and this is true also for a spiritual vision or the bringing forth of a spiritual teaching, even when that teaching is brought forth through the Living Word. I understand that most Catholics do not have this truth, and therefore they are easily persuaded by the Church’s claim to infallibility. Nevertheless, as I explained in great detail elsewhere, this claim to infallibility is truly the biggest obstacle to the long-term survival of the Catholic Church.


Kim: The person’s next remark:

It is wrong to follow the God within yourself, and it's wrong to believe “that God gives me the truth.” If you really mean that, you make yourself a God. And when people believe they are a God, they soon start believing they have truth and cannot make mistakes.


Jesus: As I explain in The Christ Is Born in You, LINK it is indeed true that every human being has the potential to know truth within his or her heart. I am aware that some Catholics have shut off this ability and have replaced it with a blind belief in orthodox doctrines. Yet the earth was still round when all people believed it was flat. 

The statement that if you believe you can know truth through personal revelation, you make yourself a God is incorrect in the sense that you cannot make yourself what you already are. That is why I stated, “Ye are Gods.”

However, there is an important truth in the fact that people who are driven by power and who are trapped in the relativity of the carnal mind have a tendency to set themselves up as gods on earth. It is very true that such people soon start believing they have the only truth and cannot make mistakes.

And I must say frankly that this has nowhere been demonstrated more clearly than in the history of the Catholic Church. The problem, however, was that these people did not seek truth directly from the source of truth, namely God. They did not follow the inner path and seek revelation through their Christ selves. Instead they created a man-made “truth” based on the dualistic mind, and then they elevated that truth into an infallible church doctrine. They then used the military might of the Church to enforce that doctrine and to torture and kill anyone who refused to conform to the doctrine.

I wish people would spend a little bit of time reading about the history of the Catholic Church and realize that this Church has indeed acted as if it was a God and had the only truth. If a person can see the danger of making yourself a God, the person should look in the mirror and consider how his own church has demonstrated this danger so clearly that anyone with an open mind should be able to see it.

The essential difference here is that when you go within your heart, you have no need to elevate the revelations you get to an infallible outer doctrine. You have no need to seek to force other people to conform to an outer doctrine. You simply encourage them to go within their hearts and get their own understanding of truth. If they get an understanding that is slightly different from yours, or if they express their understanding in a different way, then that is not a threat to you because you know that the revelation you receive from God might not be a final, a complete or an infallible truth. God might indeed have much more to reveal to you as you are able to understand it. That is truly why I said, “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now” (John 16:12).


Kim: The person also said:

But truth has been given us from God by Revelation in the Bible. And we must accept and follow this Revelation. Because God made us, we cannot act as autonomous persons, morally speaking.
God made us, and he has the right to tell what we should and should not do. That's what true Revelation is about.


Jesus: Truth can indeed be given from God in the form of revelation, and the Bible does contain such revelation. However, as I explained elsewhere, the Bible is not the infallible word of God. When you elevate an outer spiritual teaching to an infallible truth, you inevitably fall into the trap of elevating the teaching to a God, and you easily elevate yourself to believe it is justified to kill those who do not accept what you define as the only truth. This has been demonstrated by the Catholic Church in the Crusades and the Inquisition.

I agree that God has made all human beings, and therefore no one can act as an autonomous person. However, precisely because God has made you, you do have the option to get truth directly from God in your heart. You see, the distinction here is that because God has made you, you cannot act without God or rather without using God’s Energy. However, what the person is really saying here is that you cannot, or should not, act without the Catholic Church.

So the question is simple, which would you rather follow, the inner path or the outer path? I explain the essential difference between the inner and the outer path in another discourse. Will you use the outer doctrines of the Church to deny God the ability to give you a deeper understanding of his truth than can be found in outer doctrines? Why do you think I taught the multitudes in parables but expounded all things to my disciples? It is indeed because only those who follow the inner path can understand the inner mysteries of God.

Obviously, Catholic doctrine cannot possibly contain the things that I taught my disciples in secret. It can contain only the outer teachings that I gave to the multitudes. So how can one claim that Catholic doctrines give you a complete description of truth? How can one deny God the ability to give people a deeper understanding of truth when they have studied and showed themselves approved unto God and therefore are ready to receive a higher understanding as a direct, personal revelation in their hearts?

True understanding of the deeper mysteries comes through the inner revelation that people can receive only on a personal level. True revelation can also be an outer revelation, brought forth through the Living Word. Yet once this outer teaching has been subjected to the eternal human power struggle, as has indeed the Bible and Catholic doctrine, it will no longer contain the original teachings in their pure form. The original revelation might have been true, but the doctrines based on that revelation might indeed be affected by human politics. So once again, choose whom you will serve, the true revelation of God or the man-made doctrines?


Kim: The person’s final remark:

Of course there also is false revelation. We need the Catholic Church and her teachings to be sure we follow the path of truth. Thinking you truly will find truth by your own thinking and feeling is such a false revelation.


Jesus: There is indeed false revelation, as I explained elsewhere. And the person is quite right that when receiving personal revelation, you should do everything possible to receive true revelation, and you must constantly be on guard against false revelation. However, to say that all personal revelation is per definition false revelation is simply a denial of your ability to discern.

History will prove this point. Most Christians accept that the Gospels in the Bible did not fall from the sky, but were written down by human beings. So these human beings must have received the Gospels through a process of personal revelation. So if it was possible for the Gospel writers to receive accurate personal revelation, then would it not follow that it could be possible for others as well?

You must realize that at the time the Gospels were written, there was no official doctrine to compare them to. The Christian Gospels did indeed go far beyond the official doctrines of the Jewish religion, and that is why they were rejected by so many orthodox Jews. So in order to bring forth the Gospels, the Gospel writers had to be willing to do two things. They had to be willing to seek personal, inner revelation and they had to be willing to publish that revelation even if it contradicted or went beyond the doctrines that they had been brought up to believe were complete and infallible.

Indeed, if my early followers had taken the same approach to religion as the person writing this letter, Christianity would never have been born. The orthodox Jewish religion would have squashed Christianity before it had a chance to reach the people. 

 

What I said earlier about prohecy applies equally to revelation: it often goes beyond established doctrines, because that is the entire purpose of giving it. If established doctrines have fallen away from truth, how can I or God set people free from their error? We can do so only by giving new revelation that goes beyond doctrine, which is precisely what I am doing on my website. LINK If you insist that such direct revelation from above must conform to he doctrines of an earthy institution, you are in effect saying that you do not want to hear from me or from God. You want to shut out Christ from giving new revelation, because you want to cling to the earthly institution. Of course, you have a right to say this, but then don’t claim that your church is the only representative of Christ on earth. You cannot represent me if you do not want to hear my Living Word.

Is it really that difficult for modern Christians to see that I was in constant opposition to the orthodox religious authorities? Is it that difficult for people to see that I forcefully denounced those who took the outer, or orthodox, approach to religion? Is it that difficult for people to see that I personally took the inner or mystical approach to religion and that I encouraged my disciples to do the same?

And is it really that difficult for modern Christians to see that human power plays did indeed turn the Christian religion into precisely the kind of orthodox religion that I so forcefully denounced whenever I encountered it? Is it really that difficult for modern Christians to ask themselves whether I truly want to see the religion that claims to represent me on earth become precisely the kind of religion that rejected me, persecuted me and crucified me?

 

 

 

 

Copyright © 2009 by Kim Michaels

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Webinar for Estonia conference

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If you are not able to participate in the Estonian conference in person, you can be part of the event live on the webinar.

For more information, click here.

 

 

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There is still time for you to join us, and if you want to come, it will be helpful for the organizers if you can sign up as soon as possible so we can plan it in the best way. I look forward to seeing you there.

 

For more information, CLICK HERE.

 

 

Sound files American conference 2018

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We just returned from our trip to the United States and I have put the sound files for the American conference on the subscriber website.

 

They are in a folder named America 2018.

 

New answers, September 2018

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American conference online participation

2018-09-07

The North American Ascended Masters Conference is Sold Out but You Can Still Attend Electronically

For those who missed out, the conference organizers are offering a webinar for those who would like to attend this gathering electronically in real time.

The fee is $100 for the entire weekend, payable through Paypal (go to www.newchristianitynow.com home page). In addition, please send your email address to the conference coordinators to receive conference information and linkages. 

The webinar will be in real time; Albuquerque is located in the Mountain time zone, and will be on daylight savings time during the conference. Prior to the conference, we will email you PDFs of the invocations that will be recited at each session, so you may join us in raising the Light to welcome the ascended masters. 

 

 

 

 

 



 

 

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